Let's see who can kick Dr. Manhattan's (Jonathan Osterman) butt in all of DC/Marvel universes -
Dr Manhattan vs Superman
Superman is perhaps the strongest super hero in DC universe with his various aliases like Superboy, Superman Prime, Superboy Prime and so on varying a bit in powers and weaknesses. So how does Dr. Manhattan compares to Superman? Dr. Manhattan can probably destroy Superman even before Superman realizes what happened! How?Can Superman do anything against Dr. Manhattan - Nothing. Nada. Superman's super speed is useless as Dr. Manhattan knowing the future will know where Superman's gonna fly to! Superman's heat vision is useless as heat can't hurt Dr. Manhattan. Superman's super strength is useless as Dr. Manhattan is invulnerable to physical damage!
How can Dr. Manhattan kill Superman -
Dr. Manhattan can remove Superman's intrinsic field and leave his individual atoms floating around in space. Result - Superman dead before he even knew what hit him!
Dr. Manhattan can turn the planet into solid Kryptonite using his matter manipulation powers. Superman is helpless against Kryptonite.
Dr. Manhattan can turn the yellow sun into a red giant thereby turning Superman into regular human.
Dr. Manhattan can destroy the sun there by taking out Superman's power source and then leave Superman to die.
Dr. Manhattan can beat Superman just by blunt strength as well as Dr. Manhattan's power source is the universe itself!
Verdict - Dr Manhattan wins hands down against Superman.
Dr. Manhattan vs. Incredible Hulk
Hulk is probably the strongest character in Marvel universe and like Superman, Hulk too has many different variations differing slightly in powers and weaknesses.
Can Hulk do anything against Dr. Manhattan - Again nothing. Nada. Hulk's super strength is useless against Dr. Manhattan who is impervious to physical damage.
How can Dr. Manhattan kill Hulk -
Dr. Manhattan can again remove the intrinsic field of Hulk's body (or may be all of Earth including Hulk) and Hulk don't seem to have any powers to resist that attack! Hulk dead in a split second!
Dr. Manhattan can remove the Adrenaline flowing in Hulk's brain and Hulk will turn into Dr. Banner without the precious Adrenaline! This is very neat and Dr. Manhattan can do it without any major effort.
Dr. Manhattan can turn into Ms. Betty (Hulk's girlfriend) and calm him down! Hulk won't hit Betty and will turn into Dr. Manner in no time!
Verdict - Dr Manhattan beats Hulk easily.
Keep reading next battles -
Part 2 - Dr. Manhattan vs Dr. Strange, Doomsday and Galactus
Part 3 - Dr. Manhattan vs Silver Surfer, Dark Phoenix and Professor X
Part 4 - Dr. Manhattan vs Mr. Mxyzptlk, Scarlet Witch and Mr. Fantastic
More about Dr. Manhattan -
To find how Dr. Manhattan became so powerful, click - Dr. Manhattan's Origin and Superpowers
To find some funny details about Dr. Manhattan's personal life, click - Dr. Manhattan's personal life and his girlfriend Silk Spectre
To read some of Dr. Manhattan's memorable quotes, click - Dr. Manhattan's memorable quotes from Watchmen
To find about other Watchmen character's super powers and super craziness, click - Watchmen character's super powers and super craziness
This is pretty stupid. Dr. Manhattan can only predict his future. And he's really like the Yoda of the DC/Marvel Universe (I'm guessing he can travel through parallel worlds to Marvel lol).
ReplyDeleteNah, the real Dr. Manhattan (the one from book) can predict all future.....it's only in the movie that they limited his power to just his future.
ReplyDeleteRead, all anonymous subjects I posted bout how to perceive Dr Manhattan as it should instead of Manhattan wanking.. like u are doing now!
DeleteOw, all posted at march 27, 2013. around 5 to 6 AM.
DeleteIt's a lot of info, but u will get the picture,
Manhattan is not even close to the powers of a Silver Surfer and likes.
I agree Dr. Manhattan is very powerful but he said himself, that he knows the future but he can't change it. So even if he sees you're gonna punch him in the face, there's nothing he can do to stop it.
ReplyDeleteyupp, I explained exactly how his precognition works here in the comment - http://watchmen-movie-book-info.blogspot.com/2009/01/dr-manhattan-vs-dc-marvel-superheroes_9799.html
ReplyDeletewhy do you have such a hardon for Dr. Manhattan?
ReplyDeleteI'll make a logical argument that Dr. Manhattan's ability to see into the future does NOT mean that he can simply anticipate any form of attack against him and therefore prevent it from happening. If we assume that the future is written in stone- ie that our human concept of time's arrow is arbitrary and that the future has therefore- in a sense- already happened, then it cannot be changed just because you can see it. Therefore, Dr. Manhattan might be able to see the future attack, but he could not do anything to change/prevent it because that would be changing the future- which he would not be able to see if it were actually changeable and had not "already happened".
ReplyDeleteIt comes down to this- if you can see the future, then you cant change it because it's already happened. Otherwise you wouldnt be able to see it.
I suspect that what Dr. Manhattan is able to do is to actually see different possible VARIATIONS of the future- based on all probabilistic outcomes of quantum superposition and indeterminancy. If you are familiar at all with the implications of Schroedinger's famous thought experiment with his cat, then you know that there is a very strong argument to be made that everything that possibly COULD happen actually DOES happen at some point in theoretical alternative realities. These realities are based on all possible particle interactions and observations in a branching probability tree.
The fact that Dr. Manhattan even bothers to try doing anything to prevent a future nuclear war implies that he knows the future CAN be changed. Otherwise ALL action or choice would be futile. Again, this implies that all he sees are POSSIBLE outcomes of branching parrallel timelines.
Therefore Dr. Manhattan cannot use precognition to prevent future attacks in advance. In fact, if every possible quantum outcome does infact occur on SOME timeline on SOME branch of reality, then Dr. Manhattan must be killed in one of them.
The ultimate arch-enemy that has killed/ will kill Dr. Manhatan is therefore Dr. Schrodinger. It's apropriate that it should be another physicist, dont you think?
Links here;
Time's Arrow and Causality:
http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_arrow_of_time.asp
Schroedinger's Cat and Quantum Reality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodingers_Cat
Sincerely, Ty Harris
http://tyharris.wordpress.com
@Ty Harris
ReplyDeleteVery intelligent comments on precognition and it's implications! Thanks for bringing back the fun memories of school days when we made a switch from classical mechanics to quantum mechanics. You put the concept of causality very accurately and I agree with you on many points. But let me state my own understanding of causality from Dr. Manhattan's point of view - Your basic assumption here is that if future is "set in stone" then it can be changed *without creating a paradox* is to assume parallel universes. But the way it looks - Future CAN be known without having it set in stone.
How? Let me present a real world example - Say you have a ball in your hand and you are going to throw it. Since you are going to throw it, you know where its going to fall (assuming you know wind speed and all other factors). Now if the ball takes 10 seconds to fall where *you want it to fall*, then you already know the next 10 seconds of the future! See what I mean? You *know* the future but you still have the power to change it. You can decide to not throw the ball and now you know the "other" future where ball is still in your hand 10 seconds later! So basically, knowing the future and still be able to change it is not a paradox in itself, per say. It becomes a paradox when you tell someone else that ball will be found at x location after 10 seconds and then you decide to not throw it.
This applied to Dr. Manhattan - Dr. Manhattan is aware of all possible variables that decide the future (future is a function of present). So he knows the future because he himself created it (like you throwing the ball) and he can choose to change it as and when he prefers by simply changing the present.
So, in this article's context, Dr. Manhattan knows that if he doesn't do anything then some villain is going to attack him in future. He also knows that if he does something else then he can stop the attack in future. In essence, he has two available "futures" and he can pick one or the other based on what he chooses to do.
Now back to your example of Schrodinger's Cat experiment (yeah I'm familiar with it, took Quantum Mechanics in on semeseter :)) - As you'd notice, my above explanation leads us to the Objective Collapse interpretation of the experiment (also called Copenhagen's interpretation). That is, from Dr. Manhattan's point of view there is just one future (the one he decides on) but from everyone else's point of view there are infinite possibilities (parallel universes, if you may) till the future actually happens. What do you say?
OK, so under your scenario, Dr. Manhattan cannot actually see a future that has "already happened" in a sense, and is therefore unchangeable, but rather is so all-knowing and all-seeing in the PRESENT that he can predict all possible and liely outcomes. This is not pre-cognition persay, but rather extremely well-informed deduction. This does mean though, that he can only prepare for and prempt a certain range of potential attacks in the future with actions in the present- presumably based on a probability assesment. He would be most vulnerable then, to an arch-enemy whose powers are based on causing improbable things to occur at the worst possible time. If Manhattan can change the future premptively,then an attacker can circumvent his premption by choosing totally random and improbable attacks utilizing widely disparate methods. Manhattan can't prepare for ALL possible outcomes if those outcomes are different enough in one reality at the same time. By the time the indeterminancies collapse into a specific state, it may be too late if he guessed wrong. I havent read comics since Jr. High, but aren't the Scarlet Witch's hex powers based on improbable things happening at the worst possible moment? Maybe she would be a good arch-nemesis.
ReplyDeleteThis debate reminds me of that scene from the movie "Stand by Me" where the two kids argue over who would win in a contest between Mighty Mouse and Superman. Do you have an opinion on that as well?
Hmm.... I have an idea. How about Darth Vader? Jedi- especially those with with extremely high Mediclorine levels such as Annikin Skywalker or Yoda- are also able to see into the future. Their speed is partly based on the ability to see things before they happen, and Annikin had dreams and visions and could sense impending events that hadnt happened yet in great detail when using "the force". Also he had a very high level of advanced technological skills that would probably permit him to block Manhattans precognitive abilities technologically in the same way ozymandas did in the watchmen movie. Also, Vaders' utter ruthlessness after he turned to the darkside would mean that there would be no act so low that he would not stoop-to to kill Manhattan. And since Vader comes from a "galaxy far, far away", Manhattan could not just blow up the solar system. Manhattan would have a hard time knowing from where and when Annikins' attack would come.
ReplyDeleteVery intelligent Analysis Ty Harris. Let me present my view of the whole precognition bit though: I can't seem to draw a line between "knowing the future that has already happened" and "knowing the future as a linear function of present/past". The basic idea is that only what can happen does happen and what can happen (in future) depends solely on the current state of the universe. In the context of classical mechanics, it distills down to be able to predict any future state if current momentum and location are known but gets more complex in quantum mechanics. Still, the only big opposition to this theory is the Schrodinger's thought experiment (as you mentioned earlier) but that is because the observer is unable to see the current state. Another possible opposition to this is Heisenberg's uncertainty principle that basically disallows complete knowledge of the current state but I suppose Dr. Manhattan would not be able to even keep his body intact (let alone weild all those super powers) if he couldn't get around it. Also, to elaborate a bit more on this, since there is ONLY and ONLY one state into which the probability function would collapse, one doesn't need to consciously "deduce" because the state of the universe at any given time can be expressed via a mathematical equation (again something *we* are unable to do because of Heisenberg's uncertainity principle aside from the fact that we can't even know all possible variables that define the current state). Basically, what I meant to say is that if Dr. Manhattan indeed possesses the powers that give him such control/knowledge of the building blocks of the universe (to be able to observe/manipulate matter as he wishes for example), then he "knows" the future implicitly as a function of present as opposed to having to deduce it consciously. The implication of this type of "precognition" is that he can't be tricked by someone trying to do the most improbable thing (improbably as in according to that person's thinking) because what that person does is the ONLY thing that can happen based on the current state of the universe.
ReplyDeleteContinued...
ReplyDeleteThat said, this idea does present us a different type of paradox - If the ONLY thing that can happen DOES happen then we end up with Dr. Manhattan unable to do something other then what has to happen! This causality bit is a daunting challenge to the whole future-is-not-set-in-stone debate. This reminds me of the time when I was reading Watchmen the very first time and wondering why Dr. Manhattan has accepted the future as-is when he can take actions to "fix" it pre-emptively (averting JFK's assassination for example). I guess this is where we get into the Catch 22 situation where the argument can go both ways - Dr. Manhattan is part of the system so he should indeed be able to take actions and *then* "know" the future based on present and since he has in-a-way already taken those actions, future is (sort of) set in stone. But on the other hand, if future is a function of present, then his present (actions) is a function of past and therefore he has no real choice! So it boils down to choosing between causality and conscious choice!
About Darth Vader as a possible Villain, I agree with you on all points. A villain who has similar (albeit limited) precognition abilities and superior technological knowhow can definitely mess up Dr. Manhattan. If you happen to have read the book, then you would see that Dr. Manhattan's perception of time gets so muddled up when he is hit with Tachyons that he has trouble differentiating past from future (unlike how they showed it in the movie). That said, there is just one really big roadblock here - Even if Annikin can surprise Dr. Manhattan, he can't really kill him for good. Dr. Manhattan can always recreate his body and come back while Annikin is essentially a mortal whose body can be destroyed and killed.
ReplyDeletedude, don't even bother, dr. monhottan rapes everybody. don't matter what they can do. the only thing that can possibly even stand up to dr. manhattan is dr. manhattan, even then he probably couldn't be killed.
ReplyDeleteall i have to say is, some ppl here have way to mutch time on their hands to even start thinking about stuff like this :D
ReplyDeleteGHOST RIDER COULD EASILY KILL DR MANHATTAN, AND ONCE HE WAS IN HELL HIS pOWERS WOULD BE GONE.
ReplyDeletelol he couldnt at all, he dosnt have a soul
DeleteFirstly, Manhatttan cannot directly effect Superman because his powers are not magic therefor he could not remove his intrinsic field. Secondly Superman relies on charge from the sun so he would not be powerless strait after the sun is gone. He does not lose hos powers overnight! Thirdly, Superman could turn back time to before when Dr. Manhattan was just human stop him from ever becoming a threat.
ReplyDelete@Anon
ReplyDeleteWell, Superman's intrinsic field is strictly physical in nature - just some type of energy. Dr. Manhattan is known to manipulate matter and energy, change one into another and change matter at the atomic level. So, in theory, Dr. Manhattan can take Superman's intrinsic field and change it into something else. Also, since Superman's body is basically organic in nature, Dr. Manhattan can probably change his cells at molecular level and instantly kill him (like make Superman's brain cells burst or change DNA profile of his heart's cells so his heart stops beating or even just change the DNA to make it like human so that Superman loses his powers)
re you fanatical about Dr. M, but a guy ground without super powers like the grand universe of Marvel or DC, managed to fool the silly and also annul the temporal perception of it ... you think that a genius such as magnet, dr. Fantastico, Xavier, Galactus could do with it ... Dear Dr. M must aim to kill someone ... AND you are so misinformed that Batavian X-MAN, created long before Dr M, and has much greater powers than it (will only change the molecules and such, but also to stop time itself, back and forward Over time, moreover it can be omnipresent really related) was sufficient to destroy the Dr.M it will look better the other universes before talking nonsense, because in Watchmen it has no competitors because all of resvistinha superheroes are very weak compared him. Certainly Dr Fate, Richard R or invent something that could keep it forever without regrouping molecules ... Go do something better, okay!
ReplyDeletePuts the M DR to face eternity, or the Living Tribunal ... If he were as clever as they think it would not be so easily fooled by Adrian. Do not you think? Cette I think Professor X, Dr. Doom, Galactus, Tanus, R Richards a lot more intelligent than Adrian.
ReplyDeleteLaw's own context of history and see that DR. M has a status of half-god. Has a limit of powers when handling the matériac (he can not destroy a galaxy or even a planet in just a snap of fingers), clairvoyance is not full, he should aim the target in order to destroy it, He is not omnipresent, but can be divided (the difference is drática) He can not travel between the plans, measurements, or time and space - he can teleport to other locations (this is also very different) - these things confunfem, but they are so distinct as Immortality and Eternity (words that many use interchangeably - most are completely different) ... He apparently does not age, however, the author makes prórpio hidden the fact that yes it can get old, though more slowly than normal.
Dr Manhattan is just an adaptation of Captain Atom 1960 DC which you are criticizing. The story of Watchmen is good. But Dr. Manhattan is only powerful in its universe of heroes that has only super strength and nothing else! If he was inserted into a universe where there really are superheroes and super villains that he would not be so great as you think.
Pardon my english mistakes! I am not American!
Sorry, but I forgot something important, but it would put an end to this debate: Galactus feeds on all types of energy that exists in the universe destroying them (as he once destroying entire galaxy in a short time) ... well, no matter how different He is, is also formed Dr.M power, he would be devoured by Galactus (He would be a snack for the same) ... as the question of Dr. M know the future, and he does not know that well, or Adrian would not have fooled so easily - note the paradox of history: if Dr. M abe the future, he predicted that Adrian would not a machine that would prevent him from seeing the future ... In addition, Adrian was able to manipulate the feelings of Dr.M. .. Imagine what a psycho like him to Phoenix or Xavier could do (and not even bother to mention that he can make his own mind different, because otherwise - he has u. .. Celebrities, Watchmen is the universe of Manhattan is very different ... powerful there, but in universes with super-real beings it would be just one more powerful but much less than many others. The X-Men not only manipulates molecules, he plays with the realities and shapes to your pleasure ...
ReplyDeleteIf you notice, the silver surfer has many powers similar to Dr.M (albeit slightly smaller). I think: Galactus, Doom, Tanos, Apocalypse, Xavier, The Phoenix, Some Gods, etc., all could beat Manhattan.
adrian used techions and galactus did eat him then dr m can just reassemble himself
DeleteGood points there Estellfran!! I never thought of how Galactus actually "eats" cosmic energy. And technically, everything in the universe is made up of that...Dr. Manhattan is a being of energy too.
ReplyDeleteThere's one thing I could never understand - What is the consciousness of Dr. Manhattan? The thing that stays when his body is destroyed. The thing that rebuilds the body again. Is it energy or soul or something different. Is it something that can be killed or control. Because if someone can kill that thing, then Dr. Manhattan is history!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYou made some very good points there Estellfran!
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting thing that you just pointed out is - In Watchmen's universe, future is static. Dr. Manhattan can see the future but can't change anything as according to him all past/present/future are simultaneous. But in DC/Marvel's universes, future can be changed by altering past. This is a very significant difference that hugely de-powers Dr. Manhattan. Dr. Manhattan is like Cassandra's tears - Cassandra can see the future but no one believes her so she can never change anything even if she tries.
Summing up all my settings
ReplyDeleteDr. Manhattan live in a reality where he is as much a land where there are beings with super powers as the universe of Marvel or DC. Even in its reality Dr. Manhattan was wrong and had the ability to set aside time perception, their feelings were manipulated ... Do you think a genius like Magnet, dr. Fantastico, Xavier, Dr. Doom and Galactus (who should not even be on this list because it is a cosmic entity) could do with it ... Dr. M when aims to kill someone he has to target first ... Imagine the X-MAN, long before Dr. M, and has powers far greater than it (will only change the molecules and such, but also time itself to stop, back and forth over time, moreover, can be omnipresent really related) was sufficient to destroy the Dr.M. In Watchmen has no competition because all the superheroes of the comic are very weak compared to him. Indeed, Dr. Fate, Richard R or invent something that can keep him without regrouping molecules ... Go do something better, ok!
DR M puts face eternity, or the Living Tribunal ... If he were as clever as they think they would not be so easily fooled by Adrian. Do not you think? Even Professor X, Dr. Doom, Galactus, Tanus, R Richards much smarter than Adrian.
The very context of the Law of the story and see what the DR. M has a status of demi-god. Has a limit of expertise in handling the matter (it can not destroy a galaxy or even a planet in just a snap of the fingers), clairvoyance is not full, it must aim at the target in order to destroy it,
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ReplyDeletecontinue
ReplyDelete...He is not omnipresent, but can be divided (the difference is drática) He can not travel between the plans, measures, or time and space - he can teleport to other places (this is also very different) - confunfem these things, but they are as distinct as immortality and Eternity (words that many use interchangeably the majority - are quite different) ... He apparently does not age, but the author makes himself hidden the fact that yes, it can get old, though more slowly than normal.
Dr. Manhattan is just an adaptation of Captain Atom 1960 DC that you are criticizing. The story of Watchmen is good. But Dr. Manhattan is only powerful in this universe of heroes who only has super strength and nothing else! If he was inserted into a universe where there really are superheroes and super villains that he would not be as big as you think.
Well, there's something important, but it would put an end to this debate: Galactus feeds on all types of energy that exists in the universe to destroy them (as he once destroyed an entire galaxy in short time) ... Well, no matter how different he is, is also formed Dr.M power, he would be devoured by Galactus (It would be a snack for the same) ... Galactus is considered one of the five essential entities within the Marvel Universe: Galactus, Eternity (own universe) and Lady Death, Infinity, and Oblivion. In fact, Galactus was mentioned as the "3rd force of the Universe alongside Eternity and Death. Eternity and Death consider Galactus as a fellow and a brother. Galactus has total control over the area (total - means all), unlimited telepathy (and he has telekinesis telepathy unlimited), cosmic control (has the power to completely change reality), cosmic blasts, teleportation (to anywhere in the universe, or any of its stock plans or realities) and more cosmic powers.
How the issue of Dr. M know the future, and he does not know that well, or Adrian would not have fooled so easily - note the paradox of history: if Dr. M abe the future, he predicted that Adrian would not have a machine that prevent him from seeing the future ... In addition, Adrian was able to manipulate the feelings of Dr.M. .. Imagine that a psychopath like him to Phoenix or Xavier could do (and not even bother to mention that he can make his own mind different, because otherwise - he has u. .. Celebrities, Watchmen is the universe of Manhattan is very different ... powerful there, but in universes with real super-beings would be just one more powerful, but much less than many others.
If you notice, the Silver Surfer has many powers similar to Dr.M (though somewhat smaller). I think: Galactus, Doom, Tanos, Apocalypse, Xavier, Phoenix, some gods, etc., all could hit Manhattan. Marvel X-Men - as I said - can travel in time, the realities and all planes of existence of the universe. So he could play with Dr.M. .. create a paradox where the accident never happened with Dr.M in reality whatsoever, it would Dr.M never existed. Dr.M only sees the future as a logical thing, is like a Greek oracle, who sees the possibilities, but many do not have the power to change them. Dr.M is not one of the Fates (Fates) Greeks, who wove the fate of all beings, but they had power over the past, present and future, and can change it as desired - but still a god named Destiny was above them. Manhattan is seer apenasu m ... And as I said, its powers are great and the damage to humans, most super-beings who could withstand them, would not be so great. Imagine it looking to get FLASH - after all he is not a telepath, he has telekinesis and control atomic ... And Dr.M is very fragile mentally ...
I close here because I talked a lot!
thanks! Sorry for the errors of English, is that I am Brazilian, and beyond my language and I speak better Spanish and French.
continue
ReplyDeleteHe is not omnipresent, but can be divided (the difference is drática) He can not travel between the plans, measures, or time and space - he can teleport to other places (this is also very different) - confunfem these things, but they are as distinct as immortality and Eternity (words that many use interchangeably the majority - are quite different) ... He apparently does not age, but the author makes himself hidden the fact that yes, it can get old, though more slowly than normal.
Dr. Manhattan is just an adaptation of Captain Atom 1960 DC that you are criticizing. The story of Watchmen is good. But Dr. Manhattan is only powerful in this universe of heroes who only has super strength and nothing else! If he was inserted into a universe where there really are superheroes and super villains that he would not be as big as you think.
Well, there's something important, but it would put an end to this debate: Galactus feeds on all types of energy that exists in the universe to destroy them (as he once destroyed an entire galaxy in short time) ... Well, no matter how different he is, is also formed Dr.M power, he would be devoured by Galactus (It would be a snack for the same) ... Galactus is considered one of the five essential entities within the Marvel Universe: Galactus, Eternity (own universe) and Lady Death, Infinity, and Oblivion. In fact, Galactus was mentioned as the "3rd force of the Universe alongside Eternity and Death. Eternity and Death consider Galactus as a fellow and a brother. Galactus has total control over the area (total - means all), unlimited telepathy (and he has telekinesis telepathy unlimited), cosmic control (has the power to completely change reality), cosmic blasts, teleportation (to anywhere in the universe, or any of its stock plans or realities) and more cosmic powers.
How the issue of Dr. M know the future, and he does not know that well, or Adrian would not have fooled so easily - note the paradox of history: if Dr. M abe the future, he predicted that Adrian would not have a machine that prevent him from seeing the future ... In addition, Adrian was able to manipulate the feelings of Dr.M. .. Imagine that a psychopath like him to Phoenix or Xavier could do (and not even bother to mention that he can make his own mind different, because otherwise - he has u. .. Celebrities, Watchmen is the universe of Manhattan is very different ... powerful there, but in universes with real super-beings would be just one more powerful, but much less than many others.
If you notice, the Silver Surfer has many powers similar to Dr.M (though somewhat smaller). I think: Galactus, Doom, Tanos, Apocalypse, Xavier, Phoenix, some gods, etc., all could hit Manhattan. Marvel X-Men - as I said - can travel in time, the realities and all planes of existence of the universe. So he could play with Dr.M. .. create a paradox where the accident never happened with Dr.M in reality whatsoever, it would Dr.M never existed. Dr.M only sees the future as a logical thing, is like a Greek oracle, who sees the possibilities, but many do not have the power to change them. Dr.M is not one of the Fates (Fates) Greeks, who wove the fate of all beings, but they had power over the past, present and future, and can change it as desired - but still a god named Destiny was above them. Manhattan is seer apenasu m ... And as I said, its powers are great and the damage to humans, most super-beings who could withstand them, would not be so great. Imagine it looking to get FLASH - after all he is not a telepath, he has telekinesis and control atomic ... And Dr.M is very fragile mentally ...
I close here because I talked a lot!
thanks! Sorry for the errors of English, is that I am Brazilian, and beyond my language and I speak better Spanish and French.
thanks Manoj -good that you understood me, even with my bad English! I would like to contact you if you agree, but I do not have Facebook, I do not like ... I have yet orkut and msn - I search for my name in orkut - and leave a message so we can talk! I also like movies, RPG, Computers, Literature, philosophy, politics, etc ... is always good to talk to smart people!
ReplyDeleteThanks!
It is illogical that can beat Galactus, the power of manipulation of matter and energy from Galactus is omniscient much larger than Manhattan and that I could not even heal people who thought ill and stopped only 60% of nuclear arsenal Galactus can change to 100% of the nuclear arsenal can even destroy a planet and put it back together with reviving all its inhabitants with their minds intact,
ReplyDeleteGalactus can reconfigure and transform into a human, use your Nullifier and delete it from the timeline or absorb it and make it part of its energy
Dr.Manhattan is the same for a living body with one dead and could not understand something like the cosmic power which is the very origin of life.
I do not want to fight, but the most manipulative monarch of matter and energy in DC and Manhattan defeated in a comic book and remember that Manhattan is based on Captain Atom and Monarch defeated Manhattan and 50 other Dc Cap Atom confirmed that it was and that shows you that not only was an invincible god someone strong in a weak world.
I finally understand that you like but do not invent Manhattan skills and powers and things he never did like destroying planets, sun change from yellow to a red sun, which has no knowledge out of nowhere to make a Nullifier like Galactus or change the future can not only predicts sickle had not gone through everything that happened in Watchmen and remember that it was only a being with powers in a world of dim.
sorry for my bad English.
ReplyDeleteAnd I forget something I do not like superman superhero but I hate to say that devotion is immune to the control of matter.
@Manoj Bhatty
ReplyDeleteMY NAME IS "MAKAITA MAKEKETA"
MOST OF THE THINGS YOU SAID I AGREE WITH BUT YOU SAID "Now if the ball takes 10 seconds to fall where *you want it to fall*, then you already know the next 10 seconds of the future! See what I mean? You *know* the future but you still have the power to change it. "
NOOO YOU DON'T KNOW THE FUTURE AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE IT BUT YOU CAN PREDICT/VISUALIZE EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO, BUT YOU STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE IT, FOR EXAMPLE LETS SAY DR MANHATTAN CAN SEE THE FUTURE THIS MEANS HE KNOWS YOU ARE GOING TO LET THE BALL FALL BY MISTAKE, SO EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN YOU DON'T, THIS MEANS BECAUSE OF YOUR PREDICTION YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO LET THE BALL FALL AND HIT THE GROUND WITHIN TEN SECONDS BUT IF THE BALL FALLS BY MISTAKE THEN ASSUMING DR MANHATTAN KNOWS THE FUTURE HE WOULD HAVE KNOWN THE BALL IS GOING TO FALL BY MISTAKE BUT YOU ASSUMING YOU KNOW THE FUTURE WOULD HAVE ONLY PREDICTED IT WITHOUT KNOWING IT
AS FOR DR MANHATTAN LETS SAY HE SEES A NUCLEAR ATTACK IN THE FUTURE AND TAKES ACTION TO CHANGE IT/STOP IT THIS MEANS HE DID NOT SEE THE FUTURE JUST LIKE YOU WITH THE BALL, BECAUSE IF HE REALLY SAW THE FUTURE THIS MEANS THE FUTURE HE WOULD HAVE SEEN SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE ONE WITH NO NUCLEAR ATTACK, LETS ASSUME HE KNOWS THE FUTURE THIS MEANS HE CAN NOT CHANGE IT BECAUSE THE FUTURE IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN BASED ON YOUR ACTIONS, THIS MEANS THE FUTURE ALREADY HAPPENED I.E. NO NUCLEAR ATTACK NOT WHAT YOU VISUALIZE/PREDICT OR SEE, SO IF DR MANHATTAN REALLY SEES THE FUTURE THEY IS NO WAY HE CAN CHANGE IT BECAUSE HE ALREADY CHANGED IT
THINK OF IT THIS WAY YOU CAN SEE THE PAST BUT YOU CAN NOT CHANGE IT
SO..THIS MEANS THE ONLY YOU COULD KNOW THE FUTURE IS IF TIME START MOVING BACKWARDS
This is Dr Manhattan Wanking at it's Finest!
ReplyDeleteIf u rly go deep into the Dr Manhattan vs thingy,
Then he would have read the comics, instead of assumptions he made.
Saying things like infinite energy (omnipotence) and stuff.. I just manhattan wanking.
Luckily, There have been a lot of other battles now.. involving Dr Manhattan,
ReplyDeleteLot of peeps have looked into it.
Showing that he's nothing more than a LOW to MID- END RANGE matter Manipulator.
Below the power of the surfer.
Dr Ozymandias Intellect is way below that of other heroes like.. Stark, Mr Fantastic, Doom...list goes on and on.
Easy to prove!
Tony Stark was already talking bout Tachyon Parts for searching Khang the Conquerer.
That means, tachyon parts were already a standard in the normal universe there, and in there tech database.
Meaning it's not hard for them.. or any intellect there to find a weakspot for Dr Manhattan.
Especially not for types as Galactus etc, who have knowledge about like.. ehm.. everything with energy and matter.
I mean.. Ozymandias (about ehm. 40 years old).. vs.. An abstract being...gathering knowledge for BILLIONS of years... . think about that.. Having technology beyond comprehension.
BEFORE U START MAKING THREADS LIKE THESE! and putting weak Manhattan against cosmic beings... such a bullshit!
I mean.. ofc.. Dr Manhattan is not weak.
It's Raw Power in a unadulterated state. But even then.. his own intellect, imagination, creativity are his own limit.
Energy base wise,
Not being able to stop 60% of missiles of USSR.
Means= NOT OMNIPOTENT IN THE LEAST!
Means= NOT INFINITE COPIES OF HIMSELF
Means= NOT BEING ABLE TO CONSTANT REBUILD HIMSELF
Feats require energy, as always, from physical op to the astral plane, it all requires a sort of energy.
If u have a lot of it. u are very powerfull. But when overpowered, u wont win the battle.
Comment for more.. I can explain a lot more about comic powers.
NVM, I just continue :P cause I like to explain it.
ReplyDeleteAnd ofc, to explain Dr Manhattan powers plus other char it's powers to compare them a little. even when he did not show his full extent.
It's still limited.
As far as the time/future stuff! stop doing that.. u want to make him invincible..while he's not invincible.
He could perceive his own timeline from the beginning to the unknown end... of only his timeline alone !
Meaning, any time-traveler can go before the creation of DR JONATHAN OSTERMAN and kill him there. or prevent his creation.. anyway u want to fill it in
Nothing Dr Manhattan can do about that.
Than,
Not being able to recognize, nor the cause of the cancer that mutated to his friends.
Means= he's not al knowing about the molecular structures of human beings etc.
LET ALONE CREATE LIFE ITSELF!
he can RECREATE himself only because he only exists out of electron particles.
Being unable to cure them of there cancer shows more than him being unable just to create things.
IT REQUIRES A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE JUST TO CREATE A LIVING THING! doesn't matter what living thing.
LET ALONE CHANGE THE SUN INTO A RED SUN OR TURN THE PLANET INTO A KRYPTONITE PLANET!
THINK BEFORE U MAKE THESE STUPID ASSUMPTIONS!
even if he had infinite power, he doesn't have the knowledge to do those things,
but since he doesn't have infinite power, he cant do both!
Creating those Sand Sculptures on mars already depicts his limited knowledge over matter itself.
He's just HEATS the sand up, making it glass like, than puts his OWN creativity in it, and projects is as abstract Constructs!
Than, in the comic,
He puts a seed into his hand, modifies it! and states, that he's is very curious what will happen to it.
Means, he does not know what will happen to the seed in the future, if it will grow or not..etc etc.
Meaning= he never had that ability u make of it! with some super dupy future sense. to use in battle.
he can perceive it, in limited visions or knowledge.
But still couldn't IDENTIFY the masked man at the FUNERAL in the comics!
READ THE COMICS!
Now, We go down Further,
ReplyDeleteSince were done talking bout the future ability, which he doesn't have at all.
Not the way u describe it!
Now since ur all that iluded bout DOC,
He recreated himself when he got his intrinsic field removed again by OZYMANDIAS, is not doing harm at all.
WHy? It's the exact way he was created, means he knows a way to rebuild himself out of that process.
But overpowering a being with another form of energy, is a whole OTHER way to vaporize or disintegrate someone, Talking bout atomic level now!
While everyone sees magic as magic,
Magic is just another source of energy! The same counts Cosmic Energy, Hyperspace, Magic, Chaos Energy, Energy formed by Fusion, Nuclear Reaction, all that kinds of stuff.
Going deeper, Heat is a form of energy, Light can make energy.
Electricity is a form of energy.
Not going to far on this,, since there universes. (comic related).
U have billions of forms of energy. Can't even put them in list here.
Than we have the thing that's called. Reality Warping, to Energy Projection, to Matter Manipulator!
All three things have something in common, u can bend some things to ur own will.
Depending on how much energy reserve u rly have!
Now, we finished already the subject bout Manhattan NOT BEING OMNIPOTENT! otherwise he would be able to stop the missiles at AT ONCE!
Also, he's not omniscient! since he doesn't know crap bout Cancer and how to cure it!
That means= his energy reserve does have a limit!
Question is though= WHere is the limit?
Noone of us have seen his limit,
but seeing the comics and movie, He does have a limit up to 60 percent of the missiles.
That's a very high limit, but now planetary wise.
In comparison to other beings who can obliterate planets to galaxies.
Level Scale in powers.
1. house scale ( is able to destroy a house )
2. City scale ( is able to destroy a city )
3. Continent scale
4. Planetary scale
5. Solar system scale
6. etc,,, etc
goes all up to Omniversal which is ALL POWERFULL
I mean, u do the math, more planets in one system ..solar system,
More solar systems, (lot of them) make a STAR system, and further..blah blah,, galaxy.. blah... in one universe.. blah..
At this moment, indirectly destroys just a quarter of the city,(movie and comic). Creates a city scale structures on mars.
And that was his greatest feat.
Kk.. some of u don't want to use feats. but then assumptions. cant go higher than that.
That's bout the level of Dr Manhattan. Bout a continental level.
Making him very powerfull.
Now talking bout the energy level scale.
Destroying a city requires some energy,
Now let's use the TNT equivelant.
1 Kiloton = 1 million Kg of TNT = 4.2 Tera Joule
kk. that's a LOT OF ENERGY!
The Japanese City during WWII (Nagasaki or Hiroshima) contained 12.5 Kiloton Bombs, destroying the whole city.
Can U even imagine what it REQUIRES to destroy a whole Planet? Let alone a galaxy or anything beyond that?
Means, Mathematically impossible to calculate now.
But it happened, Shown by Galactus, Beyonder etc etc.
Galactus even recreated Surfers Home planet, with even the minds of there people etc etc.
Can u imagine his vast knowledge of all kinds of elements, matter, molecule's etc etc.. how t o rearrange it etc etc.
While DR Manhattan is unable to identify and cure cancer?
HE is still unable to create life, and while he talks in the end about Might create life... doesn't mean he's gonna do it. or succeeds in it.
That's already knowledge wise, 1 point for Manhattan, INFINITE Points Galactus.
Galactus wins already here on MATTER MANIPULATION!
Now let's talk bout the physical aspects!
ReplyDeleteIf they would engage in physical combat. Same Rule Applies!
The One with the most energy, endurance wins the battle.
When someone with an overmatched power or energy, will hit someone who does not have that supply so hard,
That when the weaker being blocks or even tries to stop him, costs so much energy that it will be depleted in moments.
That is what happens with us, normal beings, boxers for example.
The one getting knocked out is Exhausted!
Other Example!
Hulk vs Zeus,
Many ppl, comment, Hulk infinite strength (not true, also has limit).
Zeus beat the crap out of Hulk, while hulk is still and remains one of the strongest beings on Planet Earth.
Hulk regenerates ULTRA fast, But requires energy ofc. (in the form of gamma radiation etc etc).. also his anatomy is human based ofc.
but he regenerates!
While Fighting zeus, his regenerating capabilities were all put the test, cause he had to endure all punches and power of a god, and that takes it's TOLL!
He didn't recover fast enough to take down zeus, meaning, it required a lot!.. and then I mean a lot of energy to keep even standing against the God of Lightning.
He lost. the hulk, cause the overmatch of Zeus his own energy potential was bigger.
Same counts here for. ehm.. let's say..Galactus.
I can use other characters if u want. Now let's use Dark Phoenix.
To Deal out damage, To block or to Parry Hits. cost energy.
In comparison with normal humans, they look infinite, but in comparison to there own powers. facing them, means,, its still the same.
Meaning,, the one with the best endurance and energy wins.. (highest Energy OUtput vs lower output)
Logical!
Just apply the rules of physics.
If u go ultra deep into this,
Force, speed, distance, acceleration.
Deeper means= State of the object, environment of object, Object build up( material ). Form,
etc etc.
It all will be the answer to who the victor might be.
That Dr Manhattan will defeat Hulk, makes sense.
Speed, Strength, Energy based attacks.
He can become intangible, so that hulk wont hit him. costs him less energy than to block an attack from hulk.
Removing someone's intrinsic field is not done that easily.
he did that to humans, which are not that strong, but still requires some energy.
But doing that to superhuman beings, (not even worth mentioning abstract entities)
means needs a lot of energy and concentration.
Also, the field holding superman together, is prob so powerfull that Dr Manhattan wont be able to remove that field.
And he needs his focus to do that.
So Supermans Speeds is in fact, a very very big advantage and countable to his victory.
Now, let's say, Dr Manhattan stops using the physical aspect, and starts with the Telekinese.
requires focus, and energy again. ofc.
Example, MS Fantastic, aka invisible woman trying to stop the giant ferrywheel and hold it or put It back.
Required her a lot of effort with help of the team. and ended with her. EXHAUSTED! and a nose bleed!
means, telekinese requires energy. (she uses some kind of force field). but it's in fact the same.
Now, first of all, what's the plan? catching him in the telekinetic field? or throwing other objects at him?
Both needs focus and speed. Which wont be unable to do so.. when having Superman as ur opponent.
U get the picture?
ReplyDeleteDr Manhattan prob wont be able to defeat, HALF THE CHARACTERS U STATED IN UR POST!